Hello 2am, Goodbye Guilt. the Surprising Benefits of Becoming a Night Owl

Show Notes

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets: Hi, and welcome back to CEO-ish. I’m Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets, and sitting with me today is Kelly Smith. Hi Kelly. Kelly Smith: Hi. Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets: Kelly, it has been a long time since you have been here. I know that you don’t […]
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Audio Transcription

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Hi, and welcome back to CEO-ish. I’m Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets, and sitting with me today is Kelly Smith. Hi Kelly.

Kelly Smith:
Hi.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Kelly, it has been a long time since you have been here. I know that you don’t think it has, but when we taped one the other day, it never quite made it. The audio –

Kelly Smith:
Awe.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It can when we don’t care about how good or bad the audio is.

Kelly Smith:
That was a threefer. We did that three different times.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
So now, Kelly, it has been a minute since you’ve been with us.

Kelly Smith:
Then yes, you are right. It has been a minute.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
But that wasn’t wasted. We’re going to get that podcast out.

Kelly Smith:
That’s too bad. That was funny.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, it was funny talking about your marriage and what you did to save your marriage. That was awesome.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, that was hilarious.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Really funny. Okay. So welcome back to CEO-ish. It is Friday, and when you listen to this, it might be Tuesday. So I don’t know why we would even say the day that it is, because we don’t –

Kelly Smith:
We’ll edit that out if … not on the live feed, but –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, on the post edit. Okay. One of my favorite things about doing podcasts is that Kelly Smith, unlike any other podcast, never knows what we are going to talk about.

Kelly Smith:
That’s true.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Right?

Kelly Smith:
True.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Do you have any inclination today?

Kelly Smith:
No, but we were talking about bedtimes and you said, “That’s funny, as it leads us in,” so I have a feeling it has something to do with that.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Okay. Sometimes I think it’s better not to tell you because it’s always so much more fresh than you sitting there thinking about what you’re going to say, like a typical podcast that would prepare.

Kelly Smith:
True, or like a typical … well, I feel like it feels like a more real conversation.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah. I prepare, you don’t.

Kelly Smith:
Yes.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes. So there is some preparation into this, but I just like to be able to have a conversation with you and just get your organic reaction.

Kelly Smith:
That’s right.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Today we’re going to be talking about the 2 AM club that you are not a part of.

Kelly Smith:
No, I’m not in that club.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, about night owls. Now –

Kelly Smith:
But I know you’re in that club.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I have to tell you I am a sleep advocate and it is very important … I am … to get the right amount of sleep, but you know that –

Kelly Smith:
Everyone in the room is laughing besides you.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You know, I read a book and I brought it to show you all, a book called The 5 AM Club. Do you remember last year?

Kelly Smith:
Yes.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And I did a whole presentation to everybody about The 5 AM club. Do you remember what it was about?

Kelly Smith:
It was about waking up an hour earlier than you normally wake up.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
But why would you get up at 5:00 AM if you didn’t have to be at work until eight?

Kelly Smith:
Well, it was just to have … I’m paraphrasing because it was a while ago you talked about it and I never read the book, but it was about basically taking that hour to kind of center yourself, have the quiet time, kind of prepare for your day and how much more you could get done in an hour when there was no interruptions.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I was fascinated by this book. It’s The 5 AM club by Robin Sharma, and I thought, where have I been my whole life that I have been getting up right before it was time to get ready?

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, for sure.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
I do the same thing. I lay in bed too long and then I’m like, “I’m just going to watch the weather,” and then all of a sudden I’m like, “I have to be at work in 10 minutes.”

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You watch the weather in the morning?

Kelly Smith:
Every morning. Do you not?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No.

Kelly Smith:
Well how do you know if it’s going to rain or not?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Well somebody tells me.

Kelly Smith:
Me, because I’m watching the weather.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I mean –

Kelly Smith:
Leanne Taylor is texting you because Alan Crohn’s giving her the weather report.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Do you know who tells me? Who tells me is when I get into my car, if there’s a thunderstorm watch, it pops up on the little alert system.

Kelly Smith:
No, I think it’s a control issue. I really like to watch the weather and know exactly what’s coming for the day. So if it’s … I know this is a tangent.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, no.

Kelly Smith:
But if I watch the weather in the morning and I see, oh, a huge line of thunderstorms is coming in at two o’clock, I won’t wear my cute shoes because I don’t want to get stuck in the rain wearing my cute shoes and then they’ll be ruined.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You mean the five steps to your car from –

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, but the parking lot has a lot of puddles.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
So you prepare your day based on the weather that you watch in the morning?

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Oh, I’m doing it all wrong. I just wait until somebody says, “Do you know there’s going to be storms? We got to go home.”

Kelly Smith:
Well, I do say that to a lot of like, “We’ve got to shut this whole thing down at noon because there’s storms coming in.”

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Oh, that is funny. Laying in bed and watching the weather, I –

Kelly Smith:
Or for instance, if I get up and I’m laying in bed, I watch the weather. It’s the only thing I watch, because if I turn on Good Morning, America, it’s all just bad news, but I always … at 7:07 the weather comes, because they do it every –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
That’s Jesus time.

Kelly Smith:
– every eight minutes.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Oh.

Kelly Smith:
Anyway, –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Wow. You have an intimate relationship with the weather.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, for sure, and then what happens is if it’s going to be like, oh, a cold front’s coming in, then I don’t want to wear shorts if it’s going to be cold all day. Then I’m miserably cold, and why didn’t I just watch the weather? There was a cold front coming in, or if it’s going to be a nice day, I want to wear something where I can go out and take a walk after work.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Wow.

Kelly Smith:
Every day.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I get up, I throw a tank top on and a pair of shorts and I walk out and I was like, “It’s snowing.” I don’t know what –

Kelly Smith:
That is very indicative of both of our personalities.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It totally is, but the amount of pressure and guilt that I put upon myself after reading this book, 5 AM Club by Robin Sharma, it was fascinating. It really was.

Kelly Smith:
Really?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Because I felt like suddenly I was outside of this group of very famous, successful … not even famous and successful people …

Kelly Smith:
Productive?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Productive people, that suddenly, because I went to bed at two o’clock in the morning and would wake up at seven or eight, then I was in the wrong club. My whole life I’ve been in the night owl club when I read the book, and I even came and did a whole presentation.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, I was going to say, you forgot to tell us the memo, because you wanted us all to do the wake up an hour early, but you forgot. You forgot to say … you stopped doing that.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
So I started doing it. I started to get up an hour early. You know that.

Kelly Smith:
Yes, I know.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Every single day.

Kelly Smith:
And you were saying it was productive.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It was beautiful. 5:45 every single morning. I did not not get out of bed no matter what, no matter what the weather was, which I didn’t even know what the weather was, I would get up and I would sit for a solid hour on the couch, and it was an hour before I even needed to think about waking up the girls, and it was beautiful, and I came back and I told everybody, “You all need to get up at five o’clock, 5:30.”

Kelly Smith:
Yes.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And I even got Jordan to get on the bandwagon.

Kelly Smith:
Yes.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It changed her life. It really did.

Kelly Smith:
Really?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah. That’s what she’ll tell you.

Kelly Smith:
Oh.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah, hope she’s not watching it because –

Kelly Smith:
She’s texting it.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, it really did change her life. It really did change her life. It’s one of the reasons that I probably slept better because I was so tired at night because I was getting up –

Kelly Smith:
Now that is true.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes. Until I had an awakening, another awakening. I had the 5 AM awakening and I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the productivity, but somewhere I felt like the Jill that –

Kelly Smith:
It wasn’t representing the true Jill inside you.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It wasn’t.

Kelly Smith:
No.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
But I felt like the world puts upon … there’s so many quotes about getting up early and early bird catches the worm, but that there’s better quotes than that.

Kelly Smith:
I don’t think that’s in the Bible.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
George Bush said … I believe it was George Bush, and I’m going to totally misquote this,a and I couldn’t find it before we started, but it was, “You can either get up at 8 AM and be average or get up at five and be president,” and so, I mean –

Kelly Smith:
I have a feeling that those world leaders, those types of people don’t require a lot of sleep. I don’t think they’re sleeping 12 hours a day.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Well, I’m so glad that you asked because you know I love presidents.

Kelly Smith:
Yes, I do.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
There are four presidents that I know for sure that were night owls, and I’ll get into that in a second.

Kelly Smith:
Okay.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I wanted to tell you one of the reasons why I love being a night owl and why I love this group of people that are my friends being a night owl. I used to go to Hong Kong a couple of times a year, and I loved going over there. There were times … I believe it was 13 hour time difference. Do you know why I loved it?

Kelly Smith:
Because by the time you were ready to have fun and talk, everybody was asleep here?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
The whole world was asleep. Anybody who needed you for anything was asleep.

Kelly Smith:
Right.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
When they were awake, you were asleep, and they didn’t want to wait until you woke up to get the answer. So they figured it out themselves.

Kelly Smith:
Oh.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Being in Hong Kong –

Kelly Smith:
That is something.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I liked to go anywhere that was more than 10 hour time difference, because I felt like my whole days, my phone never … no texts. Everything was shut down. It’s a freedom. Now I know you’re thinking, “Why don’t you just move away somewhere and be done with everybody?”

Kelly Smith:
No, I agree. When you’re running a company, you need to constantly answer questions like that, in my past experience.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes. Yes. Last year.

Kelly Smith:
No, I do watch you though. You are constantly answering questions and it’s very disruptive –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes.

Kelly Smith:
– if you’re actually trying to be present with your family or in a meeting, or even a lunch with a friend.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
If you want to get anything done in this office, you come when nobody’s here.

Kelly Smith:
Agreed.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Otherwise this office is just sort of a pass through for everybody who needs anything, and I love that. I really do. It’s social hour a lot of times.

Kelly Smith:
There’s people baking bread.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Right. There’s dogs running around.

Kelly Smith:
People getting fun lunches. There’s a lot, like the dogs.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
But I love when the whole world feels like it’s asleep. So I’m going to tell you, this is dedicated to all of the night owls who have felt any guilt whatsoever for not being part of the 5 AM club. I would say you’re not 5 AM. You don’t get up at five.

Kelly Smith:
No.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
What time do you get up and start listening to the weather?

Kelly Smith:
Seven.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Seven. That seems late for the 5 AM club.

Kelly Smith:
No, I’m not in the 5 AM … I’m not in the night owl club or the 5 AM club.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
I’m in my own club.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It’s amazing you can even go on the way you are.

Kelly Smith:
I require a lot of sleep.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Everybody’s rhythm and DNA, I believe, favors one or the other, or close to one.

Kelly Smith:
Okay.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You probably favor more … if you go to bed at 10:30 … we’re eating dinner at 10:30.

Kelly Smith:
No, I’m not actually asleep at 10:30, but I’m in my bed relaxing.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Is Guile there too?

Kelly Smith:
No.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Are you asleep by the time he comes to bed? That’s a personal question.

Kelly Smith:
No, I mean –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Don’t answer it. That’s awkward.

Kelly Smith:
It is?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No. Go answer it, I’m –

Kelly Smith:
It just depends. Every night’s different. Sometimes he’s on a call, sometimes he’s watching a show with one of the kids, and sometimes we’re both like, “I’m exhausted,” and we get in bed at 10 o’clock. I mean –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And you go to bed at midnight?

Kelly Smith:
No, not always, but you know how when you run so busy during the week?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes.

Kelly Smith:
No, you don’t do this. You know when you run so busy during the week, and then all of a sudden, one night it just catches up to you and you’re like, “I can not go another minute,” and I fall asleep usually really early, like 9-9:30, and then I’m refreshed.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
But I have to say, to my credit, you are very high energy, but during the day –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
So are you.

Kelly Smith:
I get a lot done.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah, you do.

Kelly Smith:
I’m not taking a nap. I barely eat lunch because I’m just trying to work so hard.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I’m sorry.

Kelly Smith:
It’s okay.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah. Well, you know what? I think whether you are part of the 2 AM club or the 7 AM club, the key is to get enough hours of sleep.

Kelly Smith:
Yes.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Because when I was part of the 2 AM club, before I swapped over for about nine months to be part of the 5 AM club –

Kelly Smith:
Were you in the 2 AM and the 5 AM?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Nope. It was in the 2 AM … when I started at Rustic Cuff, I would go to bed at four o’clock every single night. If I went to bed before four, something was wrong, and then I would get up at seven to get my girls ready for school. So I was getting three hours of sleep, and this is … and I don’t share this very often. I did this for probably two years, and I’d try to catch up on the weekends.

Kelly Smith:
Oh, that’s terrible.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, but I would find myself getting three hours of sleep. Three hours, and then I’d get like –

Kelly Smith:
Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets!

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I’d get like 10 on the weekends.

Kelly Smith:
That’s terrible!

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, I knew that. It’s not that I didn’t know that, but you are so excited about something, as I was and still am, but I’ve learned the secret of staying alive, but I found myself after a couple of years of this, of three hours, literally three hours. One night I was in bed and then I heard peanut call out and she … this was a few years ago, and she asked me if I would lay down with her, and at three in the morning … I had already fallen asleep. So this is one of the nights I had fallen asleep. I suddenly felt the left side of my face go numb, and –

Kelly Smith:
I remember this.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You remember this?

Kelly Smith:
Yep.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And I couldn’t breathe, and when they say it feels like an elephant is on your chest … they do say that when you … that is what it felt. The amount of pressure, and you can’t call out. I wanted to … my room was right next to the girls’ room, and so I wanted to call out to Terry, but you can’t, and I felt my face go numb and my shoulder starts hurting and my arms are hurting, and you think, “I’m having a heart attack,” and so I managed to get up out of peanut’s bed. She was still sleeping and I got into bed with Terry and I said, “Something is really, really wrong. I can’t even feel the side of my face.”

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And so we called my doctor, and I’ll never forget on speaker phone with him and he said, “What’s been happening?” and I said, “I don’t know. I feel fine.” Little did he know I was getting three hours of sleep at night, and he said, “I need you to go to the hospital right now,” and I went and they immediately put me on the stroke floor on the ninth floor at St. John, and you think, “Oh my goodness, have I had a stroke, and what caused this? I don’t have any history of that that I know of in my family,” and after three nights in the hospital, four days, probably getting better sleep in the hospital than I was getting at home, it was determined … and after many expensive tests, it was determined that I needed to get more sleep.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And this was a cause of my body shutting down, telling me, “You have to sleep or we’re going to shut you down altogether,” and so from that moment on, I made the decision that I had to at least get six hours of sleep at the very minimum, and I began this journey that either I’m going to go to bed late at night, but I’m going to give myself time to sleep in, or I’m going to force myself to go to bed early, which is a hard thing to do.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
But health wise, whether you go to bed at two or whether you go to bed at 10, like you, you have to get that amount of sleep or you will end up in the hospital thinking you’re having a stroke or having stroke-like symptoms like me, and then nothing else matters, but everybody’s rhythm favors one way or the other.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, and I would just say, for me, I’ve found I have to be in the same rhythm, because if I did that three hour thing, catch up on the weekend, it just feels like I’m constantly on a roller coaster. So even if it’s eight hours of sleep every night for me, even if I’m going to bed early, I’ll get up a little early. It’s got to be the same kind of –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Rhythm, yeah.

Kelly Smith:
Because that’s what … I feel like a baby a little bit, like my baby’s off her schedule, but I can tell. I get a headache if I sleep in too long.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
So even on the weekends, I get up around the same time and I go to bed about the same time.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Do you still listen to the weather on the weekends?

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You can’t just go outside and see what it feels like?

Kelly Smith:
I like to watch it.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Okay. I started to think for all the people that stay up with me late at night, all of the night owls, what are the benefits of it? Because I’m sure you could tell me the downsides.

Kelly Smith:
I could.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Okay. You tell me the downsides that you think of, and I’m going to tell you the benefits, and I believe mine will outweigh yours.

Kelly Smith:
Well, for me, like I said, it’s the rhythm thing. So if I stayed up … I mean we’ve had many company functions where we’ve had a gathering, like project [inaudible 00:00:15:36]-

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And you’re passed out in the bathroom or on the couch.

Kelly Smith:
No, I stay up late and I’m having a good time and I’m like, “I can stay up once in awhile,” but then I’m completely thrown off. I have a headache the whole next day because I’m like, “Oh, it was just too much. I didn’t get enough sleep.” So I don’t like that staying up super late, because I still wake up the same time.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Do you want me to start planning the functions and events at Rustic Cuff earlier?

Kelly Smith:
Yes, would you please?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Okay.

Kelly Smith:
Because it’s giving me a headache.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Four o’clock start for everything for Kelly.

Kelly Smith:
Okay, thanks.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Then I’m going to tell you benefit, okay?

Kelly Smith:
Okay.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
If you have pets, your … well my pet, anyhow, goes to bed early, 10 o’clock. I know, I don’t even –

Kelly Smith:
Your pet goes to bed at 10 o’clock?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Tucker goes to bed at 9:30 or 10. That means I get about five hours where Tucker is not wanting me to throw the ball to him. He’s a child. He’s a child. So five hours of Tucker … sweetest thing. It’s like a job, but laying there at the foot of my bed asleep, but I get five hours. He wakes up at 6:30 in the morning. So if I were a morning person, I would never get any time alone.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, that’s true.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
So there’s that. If you have teenagers, it’s the best way to identify with your teenagers and know what’s going on if you stay up with them until three in the morning.

Kelly Smith:
Okay, now I agree with you on that one and I’m struggling with that, because through the whole pandemic, they don’t have anything they’re doing.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
What time are they going to bed?

Kelly Smith:
Like three o’clock in the morning.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And how do you know that if you’re not staying up until three?

Kelly Smith:
Because I have to wake up to go to the bathroom … excuse me, and it’s like Vegas in my house. The lights are all on. I can hear people talking in the other room. They’re eating –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And you’re sleeping through that?

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And do you say, “You all go to bed!” Or you don’t care?

Kelly Smith:
I’m like, “What are you doing? Go to bed!” And they’re like, “Mom, mom, we’re going to go to bed. We’re going to bed,” and then I’m up because I’m going to work.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Right.

Kelly Smith:
Which I love.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I can do a later start time for you if you need me to.

Kelly Smith:
Well, it is hard because if I stayed up with them until three o’clock in the morning, there is no way I could get up at seven.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
What time do they wake up?

Kelly Smith:
Like 11 o’clock.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah. Well does it make you feel bad as a mom that you’re allowing your children to just set their own hours?

Kelly Smith:
No, it makes me feel bad that I’m missing time with them.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Okay. So the –

Kelly Smith:
So I … go ahead.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, go ahead.

Kelly Smith:
So I have been through this whole pandemic thing, pushing myself to stay up later and later because I want to be with them, especially cause I’m missing the time during the day. So last night it was 11 o’clock and I thought, “I’ve got to go to bed,” and I thought, “Oh, my sweet little Annie,” who’s only 18. It’s not like she was a baby, but she wanted to watch a TV show so I stayed up for another hour and we watched a TV show.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Right.

Kelly Smith:
And so I went to bed at like 12:30. Now that’s not my norm.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
Because that’s a little late for me, but then I’m up again at 6:30, seven o’clock every morning. So that six hours is not enough for me.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Imagine the time you could get in with Annie if you stayed up until three o’clock in the morning.

Kelly Smith:
I would love that.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Now you’re the exception to the rule, because here’s some more benefits of people that are night owls, which I love. They say … and when I say they, I mean some very extensive research that has been done that I would rather not name right now.

Kelly Smith:
Okay.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Because I went to bed too late and I can’t remember what it is, but they say that night owls are typically more creative, because you have the time to create without the anxiety and pressure of your upcoming appointment. So what if you get up at four or five o’clock? You know that at seven o’clock everything’s going to be going, the world’s going to be going. You’re more creative. The internet stands still for the most part. I mean –

Kelly Smith:
You mean social media?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It’s frantic during the day. Social media, even the news, even everything that is being updated during the day, you can not keep up with it –

Kelly Smith:
Except in Hong Kong.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Except in Hong Kong, but yeah, during … when you say a sentence like that, then I want to go off on a tangent.

Kelly Smith:
Sorry.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
So you don’t have this need every hour to try to keep keeping up with it, and the texts. It’s silent. It’s the Hong Kong like feeling.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You’re actually better at baseball. Yeah. No, really there’s been a study that –

Kelly Smith:
What are you talking about?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I know, that’s random.

Kelly Smith:
Very.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Night owls are better, and night owls are typically wittier and funnier than people who go to bed at 10:30, which is why you’re the exception to that.

Kelly Smith:
Is that why you thought I was a night owl?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Well, it’s surprising, and I’m not saying people that go to bed at 10 are boring, but typically people who stay up late have a better sense of humor.

Kelly Smith:
Where are you getting this data?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I made that part up, but everything else was done from major researchers.

Kelly Smith:
Okay.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I didn’t even make that up. I know that, because all of my funniest friends, except for you, and you too Brady, but all of my funniest friends stay up late. They’re bigger risk takers. They’re –

Kelly Smith:
Okay. I’m definitely not a risk taker.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You are not a risk taker.

Kelly Smith:
Do you do stay up late, Erica? No. See, she’s funny.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No.

Kelly Smith:
Sheri, do you stay up late? She’s super funny.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
They’re not super, super funny. People that go to bed early are funny, but –

Kelly Smith:
[inaudible 00:20:43] in production, they’re not super funny at all, whatever.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
They’re super funny, but they actually have been shown to have a higher IQ as well. My point is not to pit one group against the other. My point is –

Kelly Smith:
It sounds like that’s what we’re doing.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
My point in this entire podcast that you may be wondering by now, why am I still watching, or why am I still listening –

Kelly Smith:
Sure.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Is that whatever side you bend towards naturally, whatever rhythm your rhythm favors, which one or the other, is not to judge. You possibly judge those of us who go to bed at 3 AM. We sort of think it’s crazy that you could go to bed at nine o’clock, okay? And it is hard to understand.

Kelly Smith:
Interesting.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
But we both have the same 24 hours. Just because our times are a little off from the other, we do not need to judge each other, nor do we need to feel guilty when you are not part of the other club. If you want to be a baseball player, I mean, good luck if you go to bed early is what I’m saying, but it doesn’t mean there’s not hope for you if you’re not part of the club.

Kelly Smith:
I do think that people who go to bed early and get up early, I think there’s a little bit of judgment towards the night owls who sleep in, because you think, “Stop being so lazy and get up and do something.”

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes.

Kelly Smith:
That I would say is true.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
We don’t judge those who get up early, but the early people judge those of us who sleep in, who were extremely productive in the middle of the night.

Kelly Smith:
You’re telling me there are no night owl judgments?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I do not judge people that get up early. I don’t judge those –

Kelly Smith:
But you’re judging people who go to bed early.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It’s just weird. I mean –

Kelly Smith:
I think you’re making my point.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
The news hasn’t even aired at 10 o’clock yet. There’s also the whole category of people who have to get up to go to their jobs, and that dictates their sleeping schedule, but my point is whether you’re a part of the 2 AM club or the 7 AM club, can we not all live in the same 24 hour space and not judge?

Kelly Smith:
Yes, we can.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I don’t know how to get there. I don’t know how to look at people who go to bed early and understand that. I mean I’ll get there, because I think the most incredible ideas and creativity come from about 11 or 12 at night until three or four in the morning.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, but to that point, you have to agree that … because you did it for a little while, that morning time of just solitude and peace, there’s something that kind of happens in resets for your day.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Jesus is awake then.

Kelly Smith:
He definitely is.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
He for sure is.

Kelly Smith:
He’s not sleeping in.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No.

Kelly Smith:
Somehow he’s also awake with you at two o’clock in the morning.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I know. Amazing.

Kelly Smith:
But wouldn’t you say that same thing … I mean it’s maybe not the same creative spark, because I agree, when you’re up late you get harebrained ideas and you’re like, “Let’s try that. That’s a great idea.”

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And you invite 74 of your friends.

Kelly Smith:
Exactly. In the morning is a little bit more of a kind of a peaceful solitude, kind of setting your day on the right path.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
So maybe that is … oh, that was my phone. Sorry.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah. We’re sorry. You know what you know people should do?

Kelly Smith:
What?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
If you’re listening to this, try one for a month and try another one for another month and see which one fits you better.

Kelly Smith:
Okay. I’m not coming in on Monday until 10 o’clock because I have to stay up really late.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Okay. I think you should try it. You don’t know. You may find a new freedom and new creativity. You might be part of the design team.

Kelly Smith:
Let’s say that. Let’s say next week I’m going to stay up until one or two o’clock in the morning and I’m going to come in late for a week, and let’s see what happens.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Okay. What do you think is going to happen? You’re going to be grumpy.

Kelly Smith:
I think I’m going to be crabby because I’m off my rhythm.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
If you’re not Kelly Smith, try it, unless you know yourself already, and I think most of you listening probably know yourself well enough to know what fits your lifestyle and which fits you, who you are.

Kelly Smith:
So maybe are you saying basically embrace who you are instead of trying to fit a mold?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
Because I do think that’s what you learned from reading the 5 AM book, which is, it’s not that there’s anything wrong with getting up at 5 AM, but it’s not really fitting who you are.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I’m going to say this right now. I’m going to write a book. I’m going to have a book published that is titled The 2 AM Club.

Kelly Smith:
Totally. I thought at the beginning of this podcast that’s what you should do. That’s a great idea.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Because for the entire population who is not part of the five –

Kelly Smith:
Is it 2 AM? Because that’s a great idea.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I know. How did I come up with that at 3 PM? But for all of those people that come alive at night, there needs to be a book for us, because I walk by the airport and I see that 5 AM Club and instantly you’re like, “Not me.”

Kelly Smith:
You feel guilty.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes. I don’t like that. If I write a 2 AM Club, then you’re going to have people who will come out and say, “I never wanted to tell people that, because it feels like I’m being lazy if I sleep in.”

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Sleeping in is equated, I believe, with being lazy.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah. I would agree that in general that’s what society does, but I agree with you. I think you need to know yourself.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
We’ve talked about your identity on many, many other podcasts, knowing who you are. You need to know who you are and embrace it. There’s nothing wrong with being an early to bed, early riser. There’s also nothing wrong with being a late to bed, late riser. You’ve got to know who you are and embrace it, because there’s beautiful moments in both of those stories.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Preach, Kelly.

Kelly Smith:
Come on, girl.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You also have to know your children too, because they bend different ways.

Kelly Smith:
Yep.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And I think … I have a twin brother and he was a Kelly Smith. He wanted to go to bed at nine o’clock and he was up at 6:30 every morning.

Kelly Smith:
Is he still?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yes, and I would think, “Why? What’s going on? Do you know what you’re missing at nighttime?” We were born at the same time out of the same womb, and here we are completely different. So you need to know your children because then you can bend with them.

Kelly Smith:
Well I have … my first child is extremely extroverted. So he’s totally in your club. He wants to stay up. He is leading the charge at 3 AM. Funny enough, my youngest, when he was little, he was probably two, and my husband was of town and I thought to myself … so I have three kids and he was the youngest, two years old, and I thought, “You know, I’m going to give the kids a little treat and let them stay up later.” They were little. They were like six, four, and two. So I thought, “I’m going to let them stay up a little longer because it’s a treat. Dad’s not home,” and he, little, little, comes in the hallway and he goes … I mean, it was like 8:30 and he goes, “Mom, I think it’s time to go to bed,” and I was like –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It’s who he is.

Kelly Smith:
It’s who he is.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
He’s still like that. So even though he’s 15 now, he still will wake up at nine o’clock during this whole pandemic thing. He’s just … it’s a little later because he’s still a teenager, but I mean, in general, he wants to go to bed earlier and rise earlier.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah.

Kelly Smith:
It’s the way he’s wired.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And when you know yourself and you know your children and you know who they are and how they bend, we can relate better and not put guilt on the other.

Kelly Smith:
True.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
So I’m not going to make you feel guilty for going to bed tonight at nine o’clock.

Kelly Smith:
Thank you. Do you want me to call you with the weather report?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
But I do need a good weather report.

Kelly Smith:
You got it. I got you, every morning.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It’s amazing I’ve made it this long without watching the weather every day.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah, true, maybe you don’t need a weather –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It’s just easier. Why? One more thing on my plate when I know somebody around me is going to panic and tell me about the weather.

Kelly Smith:
I think it’s a control thing for me. I want to make sure I have the right clothes on or an umbrella in my car in case it’s going to rain or tell the kids, “Hey, they bad weather is coming in at this time, make sure –

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
that’s a lot going on up there.

Kelly Smith:
That’s what Guile says.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I’m just like, “I hope we have Frosted Mini-Wheats.”

Kelly Smith:
Totally, totally. Guile says to me, “No wonder you’re stressed out all the time. You got all that rolling around in your mind.” I’m like, “I know. I can’t turn it off.”

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
How do you get … you think by the podcast you’d get it all out, but –

Kelly Smith:
Oh, no.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
That doesn’t help at all.

Kelly Smith:
That’s why I go to bed … and by the way, I was going to ask you this. It takes me … when I lay down at night, it takes me literally 15 seconds to go to sleep.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Oh.

Kelly Smith:
I am asleep. The second I turn over, I’m completely asleep.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Well, I learned the secret of falling asleep, because you would think that you stay up so late, you’ve got so much on your mind then.

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I put one AirPod in my ear when I go to bed and I’m trying to learn a new language, and then I wake up and I’ve been listening to it for eight hours while I’m asleep. I’m actually … I just realized this a little while ago when somebody from France walked in, I started speaking fluently to them in French, and –

Kelly Smith:
Oh my gosh.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I haven’t been to a french class at all, but I’ve been listening for three weeks, eight hours a night in bed to French.

Kelly Smith:
Are you kidding?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
I’m totally kidding, but I believe if you get it in your head, you could become fluent in any language if you listened to it all night long.

Kelly Smith:
True.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
That’s another podcast and that’s another break.

Kelly Smith:
That’s right.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Kelly, thank you so much for … it’s so much fun to have you back.

Kelly Smith:
Thank you. I feel like I was just here last week.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
You were, but that will never make it to air, but you can go … you’re going home now, aren’t you?

Kelly Smith:
Yeah.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah. Okay. Get some sleep.

Kelly Smith:
Are you?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
No, I have a couple Zoom calls.

Kelly Smith:
I think my teenagers just woke up so I’m going to go spend some time with them.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
And give them some Frosted Mini-Wheats and please tell them about the weather, yeah.

Kelly Smith:
Will do.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Thank you so much for being with us today CEO-ish. We would really love if you hit the subscribe button and commented. It is what keeps us on the air. That’s not true.

Kelly Smith:
It does?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
We’ll say we will stay on the air regardless –

Kelly Smith:
I think we’re doing this whether anybody is listening or not.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
We are. We pretend that there is … so Hailey Sharp is the only person that I pretend I’m doing this for, because she writes me every time –

Kelly Smith:
She does?

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
Yeah, every time, and if we do this for nobody else, it’s for the one.

Kelly Smith:
That’s right.

Jill Donovan of Rustic Cuff Bracelets:
It’s for the one. Except today it was for the however many were listening on Addicted to Cuffs. Thank you so much for being with us on CEO-ish and we will see you next time. Thanks Kelly.

Kelly Smith:
Thank you.